THE VFA PIONEER HISTORIES PROJECT
Joan Ditzion
“At 81, I embrace myself as an aging woman and an elder and want to have a sense of agency as I age; to age well, with passion and purpose until my last breath.”
Interviewed by Judy Waxman, Oral Historian, September 2024
JW: Joan, would you please give us your full name and when and where you were born?
JD: My full name is Joan Sheingold Ditzion, and I was born March 30th, 1943, so I’m 81, and glad to be aging. I was born in the Bronx, New York City.
JW: Tell us a little about your life, say, prior to the time you got into the women’s movement? What was your background, siblings, childhood, that kind of thing?
JD: Sure. Well, I come from a very close Jewish middle-class New York City extended family. I was the first born. I have a younger brother. My mother was a guidance counselor, and dad, a math teacher and chairman. My mom, second-generation American, had two sisters who she was very close with. And my grandmother, who was involved in the women’s suffragette movement, she was first-generation American. She felt it was important for her daughters to have an education, and moved from Kingston, New York, to New York City so they could go to college and graduate school. My dad was from a first-generation American family. His parents didn’t even speak English, but he excelled in school, went to graduate school, was devoted to them his whole life.
My parents both had a very strong social conscience. They were progressive New York City school teachers. And of major influence though, was this matriarchy of strong, nurturing women, who were always present in my childhood, and inspired my involvement, really, in the women’s movement. I went to Music and Art high school in City College, and then UC, Berkeley, and got a master’s degree in Fine Arts and Education, and became politically active as a graduate student in Berkeley and part of the free speech movement. That was my coming of age politically.
JW: Let me interrupt you. What year was that? Do you recall?
JD: The early ’60s, ’63 to ’65.
JW: Okay, great.
JD: In those days, you felt we could really make a difference and make the world a better place. I married my husband, Bruce, in 1967, and we’re still married, and moved to Arlington, Virginia. He was involved in the NIH, and I taught art in high school and junior high there, and was involved in the open education movement. And in 1969, we moved to Cambridge, where Bruce continued his medical training, and I taught in an institute for open education.
JW: I get the threads of your background that would lead you to the women’s movement, but tell me specifically how that happened.
JD: My initial awakening to feminism began in January 1969, at an anti-Nixon counter-inaugural gathering in Washington, DC. I was 25, newly married for about two years, and I remember hearing a group of women from Bread and Roses in Boston saying, “We’re not going to just make coffee and take notes. We want to equally participate in political process and decision making and gender inequities”. I thought to myself, “Oh, when we move back to Cambridge, I want to find out more about this”.
So, the summer of 1969, I moved back to Cambridge, and I saw an ad in The Old Mole, which was an underground newspaper announcing a Women and Their Bodies course. So, I joined the course in the fall of 1969. It was an outgrowth of an Emmanuel College Women’s Liberation event that had taken place that spring, and there had been a workshop that Nancy Miriam Hawley did. Women talking about health, reproduction, sexuality, and realizing they didn’t know much and needed to research it a bit.
I was, like many women in the room, just awakening to the implications of having been socialized female in a patriarchal society. I knew I didn’t know that much about reproduction, sexuality, and health, other than the basic “facts of life.” Sitting in one of the first sessions on anatomy and sexuality, there was a large drawing of a vagina. I’d never seen a drawing so explicit in public and learned about clitoral orgasms.
It was a breakthrough, though, to begin to have a woman’s point of view of female sexuality, because even though not much was known, women have been sexually active since the beginning of civilization. So anyhow, it was quite amazing. And I was very excited to hear first-hand accounts of women’s pregnancy and childbirth experiences and learn about natural childbirths and the breastfeeding movement. There were women in the room just nursing kids and babies, and I’ve never even seen anything like that. My mother’s hospital childbirth account was, I was a modern woman, and I had a hospital birth, and I was anesthetized. And then the doctor brought you to me, and it was wonderful. That had been my childbirth education.
JW: That is great. I mean, that just talked about a difference in the generations, right?
JD: Oh, my God, yes. So, I was on the pill at the time, but my consciousness rose high about women being able to control reproduction and have bodily autonomy. We needed safe birth control, to be educated consumers, to have the right to safe abortions as a last resort. And it was chilling to hear women’s stories of having to use coat hangers in back-alley abortions – this was before it was legal – and near-death experiences.
There was amazing energy in the room, and I knew I needed information I was not getting from mainstream sources, and the first-hand experience of all women had to be validated. And for me, these were the aha breakthrough moments in the early ’70s, when I began to embrace a women-centered view of myself, which is probably one of the most formative experiences of my life.
Up until then, I viewed myself as a woman, less than, inferior to man. A male-centered view of the world was reality. And when I began to realize that there was nothing biologically predetermined about that, but sexist construction based on a patriarchal view of the world, I began to change my sense of myself. And the personal is political had really deep meaning. When I realized that my life and the lives of really all women were impacted by sexism, and it prevented us from leading full healthy lives. So, everyone would benefit from eliminating sexism, embracing feminism, and the full economic, social, political, and equality of women and men. This touched me at the core like no other social change movement ever had. It was quite amazing.
So, in 1970, I jumped in and joined the project. I had attended the first Our Bodies, Ourselves course. So, I joined it, and then it wasn’t clear what was going to happen. We were going to continue to meet, we were going to give the course in different settings, and that just became part of that project. It was gratifying to work on a project that I felt so passionate about, and there was something compelling about this core body knowledge, and process of sharing experiences in small groups, called consciousness raising, about sexism.
And for me, that consciousness raising process; we need to bring it back. It’s people talking together personally, to understand the impact of who we are, sharing with other women. The idea is, you grow up and you’re going to marry a man, and that you’re focused on spouse, kids, but women’s relationships/friendships are sort of infantile relations. So, the idea to be validated, the importance of women’s friendship, connections throughout our lives, was extraordinarily important. And I think a result of a lot of this consciousness-raising experience.
So, we gave the course in different settings and then decided we wanted to print it. We worked with the free press. We thought, well, maybe it’d be nice to reproduce this thing. And so, they did a free press edition, the first one in 1970. It was a pamphlet called Women and Their Bodies. and then they realized it was Women and Our Bodies. There wasn’t a third person.
JW: I didn’t know that.
JD: The title was a ha, ha, aha moment. And then ’71, two commercial presses began to approach us. It took us a year or more to decide to go with Simon & Schuster, fearing you didn’t want to sell out to a corporate entity. But we decided that it was compelling to get this work out, and Simon & Schuster had certainly the market and capacity to do this. So, at that point, we incorporated a group of 12 of us, calling ourselves the Boston Women’s Health Book Collective and negotiated a great contract. And we all formally became founders of, in those days, the Boston Women’s Health Book Collective. So, that’s how I got involved.
JW: Well, it’s amazing. I, of course, still have some copies of various editions, so not giving those away. And so, did you write part of it? Did you research part of the book?
JD: Yes, I can go into more detail. Basically, I’ve been involved for almost 55 years, and I’ve really grown up with the book. It was ongoing. In the early days, we’d have meetings; weekly, daily, whatever. I’m a contributor to all 11 editions. There are 11 editions of our book.
JW: Oh, wow.
JD: Yes. And then a book called Ourselves and Our Children, which we worked on in ’78, and then Our Bodies, Ourselves, Menopause. I worked on all those.
JW: What did you do?
JD: In the early ones, [with] the Free Press, it was some Myths About Women. And then in the Simon & Schuster, Our Changing Sense of Self. I was always interested in female identity kinds of issues, and then deciding whether to have children. And then the more recent edition is [on] growing older, because I’ve become interested in aging. It’s what’s happening. Also, in ’95, we became a 501(C)(3). We became more of an organizational structure. And so, I was on the board for many years and then since 2018, a liaison to the founder group. I can go into more details later, but the founder group is intact. We still are around. I’m grateful because we’re one of the few organizations from the early days that’s still around, so it’s quite something.
JW: Well, please, go into more detail.
JD: When we worked on these books, we would meet and talk for hours and hours and hours. So, part of working on all these chapters was just working collectively with people, trying to get a sense of what we all agreed on, what we did and didn’t, and just really clarifying the point of view and the multiple perspectives on everything. I just felt so grateful to be part of this. Who would have ever guessed? I’ve always felt like a “birth mother,” caring for every stage of our evolution as an organization.
I was active in all the Our Bodies, Ourselves, collective meetings, which would meet all the time. And then in ’95, when we became a traditional 501(C)(3) organization, I served on the board a few different times. By that time, the organization had a full staff. I was never on the staff of it, but it was an amazing staff and had also developed the whole global program so that there were many women. And ultimately, it’s in 34 different languages. It’s all over the world. It’s extraordinary. I mean, it really is amazing. And it’s had an impact that’s changed the global conversation on women and health.
JW: Well, I was curious at the beginning, because you said we weren’t – I say we, of the same age group – weren’t taught much about our body. So there had to be research and, I guess, professional input to be able to do the detail in there. How did that work?
JD: Oh, yes. Well, the book, when initially it came out, we got lots of letters from people. And then when we were meeting with people, personal stories. So, one thing would be, always adding to the knowledge, the belief that women’s issues are a composite of everyone’s experience. And so, we would keep expanding the stories and the point of view in all the books, and that was very important. And then obviously, as changes took place, women also entered more of the professions, and much more research was being done. We always had the topmost feminist, up to date, medical information that was out there, and incorporated as soon as anything became available. So yes, it expanded tremendously.
In early days, it was more personal stories, and it became a total integration of all the most annotated, up-to-date, feminist research that was being done. And so, I was this one person; hundreds of women would contribute to all the books as we went forward. Plus, all these global partners. We had this arrangement that any group of women who seemed viewed by feminist values in a way, could do anything.
They were given the text: they could just translate it, they could adapt it, whatever. And so, there are many versions of it. In fact, in our original contract with Simon & Schuster, we made sure that there would be a Spanish edition that would circulate within United States, and they agreed, and we worked on that. And then there was a later version that we did with Seven Stories Press, but it circulated more in Latin America and South America, and it had a tremendous outreach in a way.
JW: Are there any particular stories you remember?
JD: There’s a very funny story, but I don’t know if it’s appropriate for this one. When the first edition of Simon & Schuster was published, my grandfather was, at that point, in the Hebrew Home for the Aged, in Riverdale. I was living in Riverdale. So, I brought the book to him. I said, “Grandpa, with some friends, I’ve worked on this book on women’s health.” He said, “Oh, wow.” So, he opened the book, and he opened it to the women’s self-exam photo.
JW: Oh, my gosh.
JD: He said, “Oy vey iz mir,” then called his friend Hymie, “Look at this one.” And I was about ready to go through the floor.
JW: You were a brave woman. That’s a great story. Again, a generational divide. I love it. Now, are there any other people involved you’d like to highlight or talk a little about?
JD: Nancy Miriam Hawley, who started the whole thing, was really critical. And then all the founders, there’s 11 of us who have been active over the years. And then all the staff who worked for years, various board members, advisory committees. I’m grateful for everyone. Plus, hundreds and hundreds of researchers. And Judy Norsigian, who has been amazing. I mean, Judy actually took the role of an executive director for some years and has been totally involved in the daily workings and governance through both the staff position and then a board position. So, she’s been extraordinary.
JW: She is in our archive.
JD: She’s phenomenal.
JW: So, you obviously continued your activity way past what we’re calling the second wave year.
JD: In 1972, soon after we incorporated, we deepened our collaborative writing process. And for me, writing was amazing in that way. I had been an art major, I had written papers in college, in graduate school, but this was different, because it was the first time I was writing from an authentic voice. And I really never took my words or other women’s words that seriously and believed we could really make a difference. So, all, as in all collective consciousness raising groups, we work by consensus. We’d talk for hours until we came to a clear point of view, we all agreed, or in ways we agreed and disagreed. It was just an ongoing conversation.
And over the years, what’s most important to me, and I don’t know if I can go into a lot of detail, is over these five decades, I’m in awe, really. As I said, I’m one person in this amazing project. But it’s touched the hearts and souls of so many women and men throughout the world and changed the global conversation.
There are 11 editions of Our Bodies, Ourselves. There’s Ourselves and Our Children. There’s Our Bodies, Ourselves, Menopause. There’s Our Bodies, Ourselves, Pregnancy and Childbirth. There’s sister books, Changing Bodies, Changing Lives. The New Ourselves, Growing Older, Sacrificing Ourselves for Love, global books in 34 languages, especially the Spanish book, which I just told you about, Nuestros Cuerpos, Nuestras Vidas, which Seven Stories Press did, and it circulated throughout Latin and South America.
And just in 2012, the Library of Congress named Our Bodies, Ourselves, one of the 88 books that shaped America. Also in 2012, the Educate Congress campaign began, where we gave each member of Congress a version of Our Bodies, Ourselves to evidence facts of life. Sort of evidence-based policy in response to misinformation that senate candidate Richard Murdoch from Indiana, who said that Pregnancies that happen as a result from rape, that was something that God intended. So, we felt that congress needed to get this book.
And then in 2017, we were awarded the Elizabeth Sackler Award at the Brooklyn Museum. The book became known as one of the best expressions of the women’s health movement because it was a tangible result of a collaborative process involving an ever-increasing number of women. In 2018, we began a partnership with Suffolk University Centers for Women’s Health and Human Rights, which is creating a new digital platform, Our Bodies, Ourselves, Today, which will feature updated, inclusive, curated online information about women’s health and sexuality and reproduction for women, girls and gender-expansive people.
Our website continues to offer material on the history and legacy of the founder’s group, the organization, our books, excerpts from all the global work and adaptations, and the women’s groups that created them, and updating information resources on advocacy work that Our Bodies, Ourselves has done for five decades. And then in 2019, in honor of the 50th anniversary of Our Bodies, Ourselves in collaboration with Suffolk University Center for Women’s Health and Human Rights, three generations of feminists gathered at a celebratory event, Our Bodies, Ourselves, Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow.
And the advocacy continues, partnering with other organizations and advocacy groups to maintain health and autonomy, attacks on reproductive rights and reproductive justice and bodily autonomy. There’s quality issues, quality health care for all, single-payer health system, freestanding birth clinics, LGBTQ rights, sex education, reducing racial and ethnic disparities, and maternal health, improved prenatal and postpartum care, more support for menopause, for post menopause, and work on passing the ERA, which already has been ratified by 38 states, and now just needs to become a part of the 28th Amendment to the Constitution. So, the issues continue, to say the least.
JW: And are you currently involved in the project?
JD: I was originally, as we talked about, an art educator, but the project inspired me to become a geriatric social worker. I really became fascinated about the mental health of women and psychological development of women. And so, I became a geriatric social worker, and the focus of my work over these years has been aging women, and aging families, and looked on the aging chapters in Our Bodies, Ourselves.
And now at 81, I embrace myself as an aging woman and an elder and want to have a sense of agency as I age. To age well, with passion and purpose until my last breath. And also, combating ageism, which to me is as insidious as sexism and the impact of both internalized ageism and stereotypes have on ourselves. And deal with the real challenges, but the real growth opportunities as we age, and to find ways to be an intergenerational dialog, and pass on the Our Bodies, Ourselves legacy.
JW: Have you worked with any younger groups?
JD: There are a lot of young groups that we are in collaboration with. And the whole idea of this new combined web is that it’s totally intergenerational. In fact, it’s more younger women that are really tuning into it than aging women, as it were. But the vision has always been to keep the dialog going between the generations. It’s crucial.
JW: You started, as you say, many years ago on this, but you just kept at it, on what was your passion. Do you have anything to add then on your social work experiences?
JD: I think for me, it’s just being so aware that ageism is so subtle and internalized. When all the notions of intersexuality and the impact of all the isms on people’s lives, ageism is never listed, and it’s the only ism that can impact anyone who is lucky enough to age. So that’s the underlying issue. I also was very involved with caregiving and the role of adult children and aging parents, and the importance of caregiving and the importance of people having long-term care plans for themselves and loved ones. That was the main issue that I focused on and talked to people about and met with. I am now the older adult dealing with that.
JW: I bet it’s mostly women that you wind up talking to.
JD: Basically, an issue for me that’s been really important, really all through the years, is that we claim and own a feminist perspective to family values, that is just not the turf of the right wing. Our definitions are inclusive of all family forms. Our Bodies, Ourselves has always taken the perspective that in the context of having control over our bodies and reproduction, biology is not our destiny. But parenting, if chosen, it’s not required, is very important work in raising the next generation.
It’s essential for the ongoing society to survive. And it’s vital. And we need social policies to support it. The parents, childcare, maternity, paternity leave, workplace policies, to allow parents to take work and time off without penalty and support families in this venture. And these are values I continue to feel passionate about, and it’s the unfinished business of the women’s movement. It certainly spurred us to do Ourselves and Our Children, but it’s an unresolved issue still.
JW: Well, anything else you would like to add?
JD: I also do love being a grandmother, I have to say. I’m grateful to my husband of 57 years. He’s a retired doctor, but he’s been totally supportive of this project. I’m grateful for my sons and daughters-in-law’s and three grandsons. I have a joke. I’m a woman feminist with great men, a husband, two sons and three grandsons.
I just want to say, though, that we’re living in a time where so many gains are eroding, and it’s very upsetting in that way. So we have to sustain our commitment for these values. Although I’ve been talking with you about personally, the story of Our Bodies, Ourselves is really about a we, because it’s the collaborative working together that made it possible. And we have to continue to find ways to work collaboratively together through the generations.
Hopefully, in the future, women and girls and gender-expansive people will continue to benefit from the gains and feel empowered to take charge of their reproductive and sexual health lives. Women’s rights are human rights and there’s nothing more basic than health care, reproductive choice. Women around the world need that support. We have to be in conversation collaboratively because that’s the core of it.